Toxic People and how they operate


Yeah a big rant is coming because it’s time to name names (Seinfeld reference)
or rub the nose of those toxic people in their own piss

on this Adobe Forum thread
AIR33 Where is it?

so this thread illustrate how those people operate
the basic strategy is to always be negative, never be happy with a reasonable answer,
reversing the argument and play the victim when someone else counter their arguments,
instead of discussing the subject at hand turn that into personal attacks, and the classic spread as much as possible of FUD ( Fear, uncertainty, and doubt) etc.

in short, they are trolling

well… they are trolling so much we could say they are troliing their ass off

even when the thread is marked as “answered”, or that the thread die down by its own volition (people are tired and stop answering), they do not stop and artificially revive the thread bringing yet another argument

so here few screenshots to illustrate that kind of toxic behaviour (I’m not gonna comment the whole thread, it is too long but just few examples)

First, the situation, we are about few days after we know about the announcement that HARAMN is taking over the development of AIR, we have few informations but still we do have confirmations from both HARMAN and Adobe, many answers and comments from Andrew Frost (HARMAN) and Chris Campbell (Adobe), eg. we do have some answers even if not all of them.

here the FUD is about

  • “…this news and promise of forthcoming support is simply too late”
  • “…the businesses I work with will never want to rely a vendor with this kind of response”
  • "… unfortunately “too late”… "

so you get the message right?
however you can interpret the announcement as good or bad news,
it does not matter because according to this guy it is too late

voila, let’s just not even try to continue to use this technology because … too late
end of debate right?

what now? should we discuss when this announcement should have been announced, so it would have not been considered too late?

oh what? even if this had been done 2 years ago the very same guy could say the very same thing: “too late”

LOL you get the idea?, no matter what you announce, coming back with a “too late”
is supposed to be the ultimate winning argument and now you just have to shut up.

Sorry Phillip Kerman but your “too late” argument does not convince me,
do whatever you want with your own apps and your own businesses,
that is on you, but don’t drag us into your stupid shit.

here the FUD is about

  • “I have said it many times on these forums …”
  • “Turns out (once again) I was right all along …”
  • “Adobe is pulling the plug on AIR …”
  • “… completely abandon AIR next year”
  • “… only provide BASIC update”
  • “As for HARMAN … it’s very unlikely they will develop further the AIR platform at all …”
  • “The goal is extremely likely to squeeze some money out of it …”
  • “… until it’s completely dead”
  • “Sorry guys, I know this sucks but …”
  • “…HARMAN is not going to save AIR”
  • “Anyone that has still AIR apps in stores, you have less than a few months to …”
  • “…even if you agree to pay for the right to publish with AIR it’s likely it won’t last that long anyway”

so ASWC starts strong with asserting he said this stuff many times which off course make him an expert in doom prediction, that’s logic because he predicted bad stuff many times so we should all be listening to him without even trying to use our little brains.

That just prove he is a regular troll that do that kind of FUD spreading for a long time.

Every single time he mention something this is not based on any facts, he ignores completely any official comments made by HARMAN or Adobe, those comments are here and clear, but he just do not see them.

So for one, if Adobe was abandoning AIR, they would announce its EOL (End of Life)
instead of accepting that another company (HARMAN) take over the project.

Also it seems that ASWC know very well HARMAN as he can predict all the stuff they not gonna be able to do, seriously?
Who to believe ? a 6 Billion revenue company that decided to invest in a tech they like and want to support or some random bitter troll on a forum ???
humm I’m so confused (not really) …

Oh yeah the obvious mention of death, classic in FUD
but off course, if it is dead, you can not use it anymore right?
dummy us who dare to think that AIR is still alive

then the other classic mention of “evil corporation”,
for him it is inconceivable that HARMAN is not doing it for another reason than to squeeze money out of us poor developers, even if they mentioned many times a free tier but there is no official doc or FAQ answering those questions yet

well if it is uncertain the troll should pile on it

But no worries he is sorry for us, he knows that his doom prediction sucks,
but that just show us how much he care about trolling

and at the end no matter what he is sure it will not last long

well… because yeah he is an expert in prediction and everyone should follow blindly his lead

Well … sorry not sorry ASWC, from my point of view you are talking out of your ass,
and you are miserably trying to exploit (once again) the uncertainty factor between an official announcement and the soon to be published FAQ, web site and future AIR updates.

What?? do you think we are that stupid we can not wait a little to see what gonna happen?

here the FUD is about

  • “This is one of the reasons that I keep my plan of migrate a mobile AIR to another chose technology”
  • “it’s called religious fundamentalism or if you prefer funboys” (<sic> fanboy)
  • “As I’m using AIR only for the Desktop …”
  • “… I will not be one of their customer in a short term”

so here I would say trolling by association?
someone is unhappy about a specific thing so when trolls go hard on trolling he feel justified and say things like “I have the same opinion as you have” ?

in short hferreira80 on Adobe’s forum or @Hugo_Ferreira here on this forum
tell us he not gonna change his plans, it’s been already a looong time that he decided to migrate away from AIR so he gonna keep doing that

good on you Hugo you do you

except you’re spreading some big bullshit out there

first, if anyone does not have the same opinion they are then “religious fundamentalism” ?
please … so what? there can be only one opinion? yours and your little troll friends ?

nope, nope, nope
everyone can express their opinion and call peoples’s bullshit

see the argument of moving away from AIR when your app is for Desktop
is probably the stupidest argument I have seen so far

I mean, sure if you publish apps on mobile, and then you are stuck because Apple impose you to use iOS 12.1, or Android impose you to build 64-bit apps, yeah I understand people being worried, because, there, there is nothing they can do

but on Desktop?
You can not be serious

I can go back almost 10 years, pick AIR 3.0 or even AIR 2.6 and I will still publish a nice and stable desktop app

or let put that a different way: what could stop you publishing AIR apps for the desktop?
simple, the CPU architecture or at least the lack of support of a specific one that AIR can only produce

So for desktops we are talking about 3 operating system mainly: Windows, macOS and Linux

Unless every single Windows user move to a future Windows 53 with 128-bit CPU architecture
and the 32-bit and 64-bit support is completely destroyed, your AIR apps will work fine under Windows

Same for macOS, unless Apple decide to completely kill Intel 64-bit support and focus only on their own A CPU, your 64-bit AIR app for macOS will work fine.

And here a little proof, I can still publish AIR 2.6 32-bit Linux apps that run fine under many Linux 64-bit, Adobe did not update it in years, support is officially gone, and I can still use it and publish apps with it.

See @Hugo_Ferreira you can stop being an adobe AIR customer all you want,
for me your argument does not work when we talk about desktop apps, you are just jumping into the troll banwagon to be as negative as the other guys.

Despite all that negativity, Andrew Frost do try to communicate and comment

He says something fairly positive and hopeful for the future of AIR
he tries to clarify things here the quotes

  • “HARMAN [is] a big company, but please don’t read too much into what our plans are for AIR by looking at what HARMAN does”
  • “it’s not something we’re doing for our own internal purposes”
  • “we see value in the runtime and have a lot of expertise invested in this for years”
  • “I would love the future features/roadmap to be directed by the people who use it most i.e. you!”

those basically destroy any negative arguments those trolls keep hammering us with

the guy is working for HARMAN, he is communicating and commenting since the start
and do try to clarify the questions people are asking

but yeah many things need to be defined, we are in the middle of it
it would be reasonable to just wait a little for some more informations to come up right?

not for the trolls … they have to keep spreading that FUD
if they want to kill AIR is now or never, so trolls keep trolling

oh here you really have to decorticate the argument because it is fucking vicious

the FUD is about

  • “I’m not sure or convinced … [it] will end up nowhere”
  • “What AIR needs is a huge mountain of improvements, not just maintenance …”
  • “… to make AIR relevant again and a real player in cross platform tech”
  • “As far as I can tell you guys are gonna get a small team on this …”
  • “Most tech article I saw online …”
  • “Adobe is pulling the plug dead cold on AIR …”
  • “HARMAN won’t put a big team on it …”
  • “… and is only gonna try to cash out on the dead tech”
  • “… we’ll know soon enough”
  • “this announcement is making us move faster on our replacement of AIR …”
  • “… we are accelerating the development so we can replace all our AIR apps by the end of summer”

If I was to summarise crudely that would be ASWC (once again) saying the same argument as before, completely ignoring the previous comments off course, he knows better than HARMAN themselves how big their dev team is, and anyway whatever size of the team would give him the option to say “too small” (same as the “too late” argument), and he ends up with the cherry on the cake that no matter what they already moving away from AIR so unless HARMAN prove to them the opposite by the end of this summer they still not gonna change their mind, LOL in short let add an impossible deadline to the whole thing.

you, your company and all your 8 AIR apps

the nerve on this guy… who the fuck he thinks he is?

Excuuuuuuuuse me ASWC, but yeah you are totally right because you are so much an expert in doom prediction and because you have 8 miserable AIR apps we should all jump the cliff with you and certainly no listening to HARMAN.

LOL not gonna happen

See, it is easy to spot a troll, it is all about the bad faith in the argumentation, so let be clear with few things.

Adobe AIR have been for more than a decade a FREE SDK and runtime, it is FREE, you don’t have to pay for it, Adobe provided updates and maintenance and support for a long time now and nobody should shit on that, it is a good tech and free, ok yes closed source but so what?

HARMAN is confirming they gonna keep doing that, Adobe ran the first few 10 years and they are taking the relay not for their own internal purpose but because they value the runtime, they like it.
And yeah they gonna try to find a business model around it, so what?

Nobody knows today how much the “paid tier” gonna be, it could be $10, $100, $1000, whatever
we just don’t know and are in this “between” waiting for HARMAN to publish a FAQ and some pricing etc.

My point here is if some people been using AIR for many years, it is OK to wait a couple of months to know, at the very least, all the option available, especially when AIR 33 been officially announced.

What was your problem? oh not being able to publish on Android 64-bit? well that will be solved soon.

But ASWC, as moronically as possible (yep I made up a word sue me), decide that he is the one calling the shots, only him can decide how long to wait, and for him that’s not longer than end of summer … wow are we not all laughing our ass off right now?

WTF man …

get a fucking backbone or maybe a brain and just assume your choices

if by the end of summer all your 8 apps are moved to another tech
then that means you already made that decision months ago

it is a done deal, whatever if AIR is still around or not, you and your team have already made that choice long time ago

so ASWC is that petty so he has to troll to justify the choice and prove that he was right

well… sorry ASWC, I know it sucks, but your choice may have been the wrong one
with the future AIR updates that will come from HARMAN, whatever the price of the “paid tier”,
you may just have wasted a huge amount of time rewriting your 8 apps with another tech

but look on the bright side, you will then now be able to compare the AIR tech with the other tech, and if by any chance the AIR tech is better you will still be able to come to Adobe forums and use tons of bad faith to discourage other dev to use AIR.

And let end up with yet another ASWC comment, I promise I got nothing against this guy, but certainly he will call me a fanboy and Adobe AIR apologist or me defending both HARMAN and Adobe, etc.

anyway here it is

let’s summarise this to “blah blah my manager says so …”
oh and ASWC do not even wait for someone to answer, he is answering to himself

well sorry to say that ASWC but your project manager is a complete asshole, but I would say “not his fault” you just fed him false information

  • A company is taking over AIR and will make us pay for using it? OK, did they announce a commitment to any feature development?
  • no

not true, they did announce they will release AIR 33 that will add Android 64-bit support
that’s a commitment

they did not announce yet the pricing model, but we do know there will be a “free tier” and logically also a “paid tier”

the thing I can guarantee you is that their “paid tier” will certainly be cheaper than rebuilding 8 apps with another tech

  • Did they announce a clear goal for that technology?
  • no

not true, bot hHARMAN and Adobe made an official announcement
sure details are lacking, but it is just about being a little patient and wait to know more details

who on earth would sublicense the AIR SDK sources (which must be a subtantial amount of money) to then throw it away the next day?

I can guarantee you, nobody would do that

  • Did they publish a roadmap or said they will publish one soon?
  • Not that I know, I don’t think so.

not true, they did say numerous time that they will provide those informations soon
so sure “soon” is a relative term, I guess for you it means this minute, but other people are Ok to wait few weeks

and yeah there is no official roadmap, but do look at the comment from Andrew Frost above
you must have missed the part “I would love the future features/roadmap to be directed by the people who use it most i.e. you!”

so provided you read that comment, answering “Not that I know”
either you are blind, or blatantly lying through your teeth, or bad faith made you lose all sense of reality

it’s like superman bizarro world, left is right, up is down, if someone say they do plan a roadmap, you understand they do not plan a roadmap …

  • yeah, AIR is over for good, we need to replace all our AIR apps and we need to do it now, this is top priority.

let me guess … you work at Jackass Limited (every pun intended)

On that I will end up with a slightly altered quote

Do everything in moderation, even moderation.
And trolling, especially trolling.


ahahah I do love your style man :slight_smile: (including those couple of times I have been your target on Adobe forum).


on the Point … WORD!


Very well said.
Totally agree.